Clip Sample

[daveduck]

Here's a clip from the footage we shot in the desert with the 4008:

http://www.navel.net/super8/index.htm

[Alex]

Hey, that was really cool.

I GUARANTEE you I could degrain your Super-8 Transferred footage.

If you're interested, let me know.

[daveduck]

Yes, it's possible to wipe virtually all the grain out, but with the penalty of lost resolution. I was a beta tester for the latest release of Grain Surgery, the most advanced de-noiser I've seen, and even it was not capable of 100% de-noise without losing significant detail in the Super-8 footage--since it was handheld virtually every frame is different from the one before and de-noisers hate that.

For my money, Commotion Pro's built-in denoiser does an outstanding job, renders at least twice as fast as Grain Surgery, and for about the same price you get a full rotoscoping, compositing and animation capabilities, plus some great lighting effects.

Dave

[Alex]

If you have a beta-cam SP clone of the original film transfer and want to send it to me...I'd like you to compare what I can do wersus other methods you have tried.

[Alex]

I don't think Mini-DV is considered better than BetaCam SP.

It's only better if you plan on going a few generations.

[daveduck]

Sony has stopped making BetaSP cameras and the format is inevitably doomed, despite being in wide use. Notice BetaSP prices on eBay lately? Diving.

MiniDV has in just a few years apparently achieved nearly half the penetration (gotta love this jargon!) that BetaSP did in 20 years.

A good MiniDV camera coupled with a great lens is at least equal to SP, and since multiple generations are a given in almost any production aside from a live news feed, then the question is pretty well settled right there--virtually lossless editing will result in a better final image.

There have been some technical debates on this over at 2-pop.com. Basically it seems to boil down to the cameras, not the format. A single 1/5" chip consumer camera will obviously not rival a decent BetaSP rig. But today's $8,000 Sony DVCAM or JVC DV cameras with 2/3" chips will provide the equal of yesterday's $50,000 BetaSP image to most eyes, especially in PAL, with the added chrominance range.

BTW: Have you seen Sony's freebie DVD on their HDCAM line? Man, it is outrageous. They do side-by-side comparisons of 35mm and 24p HDCAM. You need a very sharp eye to see the difference, and only someone in the field would know what to look for. Really amazing stuff.

--Dave

[Alex]

Beta-Cam SP video edit deck prices are NOT falling on E-bay.

They hold between 50% - 80% of their value, truly an amazing amount.

You have to be careful about where you get your info.

2-pop.com is an excellent source of information for final cut pro and mini-dv. But along with that excellent information and enthusiasm is the fervent belief that digital has toppled both film & analog and that it is king of the world.

For every mini-dv project that gets sold, would you believe me if I told you there are 5,000 that don't?

Mini-DV is an amazing and cost-effective learning tool that is being overhyped as the be all end all.

Sony discontinued Betacam SP ENG recording backs, that is all.

Beta-Cam SP Studio-Recorders are still being made and sold and coveted by anyone and everyone who cannot afford digital Beta-Cam yet understands the importance of archivability, tape-durability, SMPTE time-code setting capability setting, analog Dolby encoded HIGH-QUALITY sound that will NOT be corrupted by damaged tape (as is the case with digital).

Sad to say, NOTHING out there is BOTH an affordable AND durable replacement to BetaCam-SP.

All other formats are either cheaper AND more fragile while offering many less options for setting time-code and adjusting video levels OR they are vastly more expensive than Beta-cam SP.

BetaCam SP still rules as the ideal show mastering format that is both affordable and archivable.

As time goes on, Beta-Cam SP proves to be TOO BIG a cassette size to justify being used, but NOTHING out there is both cheaper and just as durable...it's really a tremendous oversight by the video manufacturers of the world to have not come out with a true economical digital replacement to BetaCam SP.

[TA152]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ August 28, 2003 10:41 PM: Message edited by: S8 Booster ]</font>

[Alex]

The PDF 150 and VX-2000 are terrific cameras. However, neither allows one to set time-code (I'm not sure about the PDF 150)...a MUST for virtually all professional applications.

The VX-2000 DOES NOT have a professional audio interface (aka XLR). The PDF 150 ONLY shoots in DV-CAM with mini-dv tape, meaning you only get 41 minutes of record time on it.

What you are really witnessing are news organizations who have owned Beta-CAM SP cameras for the last 10 years, and spent over $50,000 dollars for each one, salivate at the thought of buying $3,000 dollar cameras that fit in suitcases and will be ALLOWED ON AIRPLANES.

News Organizations would be wise to split their fleet of Cameras. Carry half of the PDF 150's and VX-2000, and half of a higher end dockable 3-chip camera, higher quality cameras that sell for under $10,000.00 yet allow the cameraperson to dock a variety of video formats, including DV-CAM.

In a rush to embrace the smallest digital technology, the "craftsmen" aspect of being a cinematographer is being shown the door because of digital editing.

However, the mundane aspect of Cinematography, such as Professional audio interfaces, Professional tripods rather than toy tripods which are used on many small digital cameras, Time-code capability, are being downplayed as not important.

Digital Integration should be achieved in steps, rather than in one fell swoop that doesn't account for the basics.

And of course, those who do switch rapidly not only endanger the continuity of what they do, they also are lowering their own salaries.

NOBODY will pay someone a true living wage operating a camera that costs a fraction of what they earn in a year.
Embracing the format and the cameras before they have earned the moniker is economic idiocy masked as progress.

[cameraguy]

I wouldn't mind owning the XL-1 or the Sony one but the price is steep and I have 0.0 video editing equipment of any kind.

I'll stick with Hi-8 for what little video shooting I do [img]graemlins/heart.gif[/img]